The Bledsoe Show

Ayahuasca, Self-awareness, and The Soltara Experience with Scott Hussa

Ayahuasca, Self-awareness, and The Soltara Experience with Scott Hussa

In this episode, we have Scott Hussa, facilitator and Director of retreats at Soltara. Soltara's mission is to empower you in becoming fully embodied through working with the Amazonian plant medicine ayahuasca.

We talk about his journey from his first experience of the ceremony to being a facilitator, the stigma around ayahuasca and the profound changes in mind and body after the ceremony. Enjoy!

Table Of Contents

Connect with Scott

Mike's Experience at Soltara

Mike: Scott, one of the reasons I want on the show is I've been here at Soltara for a week now and I've had the pleasure of being in ceremony with you four nights.

Scott: Likewise.

Mike: Got to hear you speak about a lot of different things. I really liked what you had to say so I wanted to bring you on the show and have this little chat. Real quick, well, I want to say this first. I want to get this question. You just left the jungle in Peru?

Scott: Yeah. First off, let me say thank you for having me on your show. I left the Amazon at the end of last year. For just over four and a half years, I'd been working at another center in the Amazon just outside of Iquitos, facilitating and in a way I guess training would be the best way to put it. Some people might call it apprenticing. I came to Soltara at the beginning of January this year.

Mike: Cool. How long were you in the Amazon?

Scott: Just over four and a half years.

Mike: You were in the Amazon for four and half years. Did you leave during that time?

Scott: I think I went back home once. I haven't been back to Oregon in probably two and a half years. Time warps, as you know. Somewhere in my time there, it didn't seem that long, like four and half years has passed, and at other moments it felt longer than four and a half years. It's been really interesting

Scott's Work With Ayahuasca

Scott's Work With Ayahuasca
Photographer: Aarón Blanco Tejedor | Source: Unsplash

Mike: What brought you into, why do you do what you do?

Scott: That's a great question. I would say the easy response to that would be it's a calling. From my first experience with ayahuasca or uny as the people call it, there was this connection. I remember in my first ceremony thinking in that experience, "I am nowhere near being done with this medicine," and very quickly a higher intelligence source, whatever you would like to call it, this other voice came in which is, "No, we're not done with you." I was like, "Okay, fair enough. Sounds valid."

Scott: It's been more of a calling. I couldn't, I don't know if there's any logical way to explain how and why I've chosen to do this other than feeling compelled. It's just this is right for me and this is what feels I should be doing.

Mike: Did you ever consider ignoring that feeling?

Scott: It was so strong that I don't think I could have even if I wanted to try. I mean it was such a direct, and this is something I will tell guests is making that distinction in working with this medicine to understand where the mind, that logic comes in and the rationale aspect comes in and it definitely has a place in daily life but then also connecting into the other intelligence that's in the body. We talk about alignment. Our alignment is often spoken of when working with plant medicines or ayahuasca and when I can get my mind and my body working in harmony, things just seem to flow.

Aligning the body and the mind

Scott: There was a bit of questioning and struggling mentally around, "This doesn't make any sense based on my background," to suddenly want to explore this medicine work deeper and yet it felt so right.

Mike: Most people experience that mind body harmonization very infrequently. It's not even on purpose, it's by chance. Surfers talk about it when they catch a wave or someone, a long distance runner, they hit that runner's high or yogis talk about it when they're doing yoga stuff.

Mike: Most people don't ever have that experience. Is this something that came with plant medicine or is this something you'd experienced before and now you're able to harness it more through plant medicine?

Scott: I definitely experienced those brief moments that you expressed, whether it was in doing a sporting activity or doing something that was where a flow state, some people will refer to it as that or being in the zone, where the mind body connection is just really harmonious or in resonance.

Scott: I had those moments sporadically in life but definitely working with this specific biomedicine, I feel like I've been able to be in that space more often than not. You used a beautiful word which is, "Having the awareness." Having an awareness and being conscious about it. It's not necessarily chasing after something but being very present with where I'm at, where my mind's at and seeing if I'm a little bit off center mentally more often than not as emotions tend to be quite true. Just a lot of acceptance and awareness can help that process be accessed on a more frequent basis.

Scott's Amazing Journey

Scott's Amazing Journey
Photographer: Aneta Ivanova | Source: Unsplash

Mike: Tell us about your background. Where do you come from and how did you get here?

Scott: I will try and condense this into the most abbreviated version.

Mike: Cool.

Scott: I was actually adopted when I was three years old from South Korea and was adopted into an amazing family in the States. They are my mom and dad and I have one brother, and very loving family but like all families having their issues. Around the age of eight, my parents divorced, brother and I moved out to Oregon with my mom.

Scott: I'd say there was, where this ties into coming into this work was being adopted from a different culture and having a different ethnic background than my family, who are all Caucasian. The communities that I lived in by and large were all, it was suburban white neighborhoods so I definitely stood out. It was an interesting process because identity was something that was always there for me to look at, whether I wanted to or not. Like most teenagers, the most important thing is to fit in and to blend in.

Mike: Of course.

Scott's struggle of fitting in

Scott: There was this struggle growing up, wanting to fit in but knowing on a very physical level I didn't. I would say I kind of pushed that away up until university where I actually started to want to explore a little bit more of just my ethnic background, as it had been something I had pushed away. This led to me going to first Japan and then South Korea, more from a curiosity standpoint and also traveling, wanting to see the world. What was initially supposed to be a year abroad in South Korea turned into an 11 year stint. It was a really interesting growth period for me because it was a chance to reconnect into a culture that was still very foreign to me and yet feeling a connection to.

Scott: I've spoken with quite a few other Korean adoptees as well as adoptees and identity is at the core, I'd say, for a lot of the challenges that people may face in that particular situation. For me, what I was struggling with as I was coming to the end of my 11 years there was I felt culturally I fit into Western culture or American culture and yet there were definitely moments where physically I just didn't feel like I fit in, especially in smaller rural communities or if I was traveling. In Korea, it was the opposite. I could easily blend in physically and yet culturally it was such a disconnection from not having grown up there, so feeling like I had a foot in both cultures.

"Who am I at the end of the day?"

Mike: My outer world and my inner world don't match up, so now there's conflict.

Scott: It's interesting to play around with it. I do try and approach a lot of this work with a sense of playful curiosity. With that being said, there's definitely moments where it's very, very challenging and hard to do. That's kind of, on a personal level, what was there I'd say on a, I had some awareness around it but I maybe didn't know how to name it properly. Just something inside of me didn't feel like I fit in anywhere. I've seen enough guests who have come through the center that I worked at as well as even here to varying degrees where it's just that sense of wanting clarity on belonging and a sense of, "Who am I at the end of the day?"

Scott: That was, I'd say, one component that brought me into wanting to or raise the curiosity around wanting to work with ayahuasca which I heard about in Korea, interestingly enough. On a professional level, I'd been involved in a few startups in Korea. The last five years, I worked as a consultant for a British company that basically had hypermarkets in the South Korean marketplace. I was attached to their head office and the HR team and was doing training, putting together training programs for them as well as doing one on one coaching with executives. It was interesting because I think that experience with the executive coaching, which really turned into, I'd say, therapy sessions.

Success as the compensation

Mike: I've had executive coaching before and it was therapy. I was like, "I'm going to get leadership training." I sit down for leadership training, I was like, "Oh, I've got some things to look at about me here." I thought I was going to learn how to talk to other people or present better or, no. Leadership is about cleaning up your own shit. That's what being an executive is, is being a leader.

Mike: A lot of this stuff is, I wouldn't say it's disguised, it's completely honest, but I think that a lot of us have assumptions about, like if someone's in that position they already got all their shit figured out and they probably have, I don't know, probably but have just as much pain and anybody else. Maybe more associated with what they do. I think a lot of people and a lot of people in business are very successful because it's a compensation. They've got to prove somebody wrong or they've got to come out on top for some reason, that they're avoiding something or afraid of something. It's a curious game.

Scott: It's a place where they can focus all of their energy. There's nothing wrong with that at the end of the day.

Scott: There is nothing, I'd say, fundamentally wrong with that but if it's at the detriment potentially in how people can relate to other people whether that's with their friends or their family and it may be causing more pain for those people as well as themselves than taking the time to maybe just reassess and look at things isn't such a bad thing.

Scott's Exposure To Ayahuasca

Portrait to Machu Picchu
Photographer: Gianella Castro | Source: Unsplash

Mike: You were exposed to the conversation around plant medicine by participating in executive coaching.

Scott: I'd heard about ayahuasca through a few podcasts when I was in Korea and I was like, "Oh, that sounds interesting." First thought going back to supposedly if someone, people who talk about their experiences with medicine, they've been able to have access to repressed memories. Being adopted at the age of three, I was really curious, like, "Okay, what happened?" I thought, "Well, when I get back to the States, South America's a lot closer, maybe I'll do it."

Scott: I got back to the States. I was at a point in my life where after being overseas for 11 years was, "Okay, now what do I do? I have to start from zero again," and fell back into what I had been doing which was being involved in a startup, which took about three years to stabilize. I had this experience with my business partner and I was extremely triggered and angry.

Scott: It was the first time that I really had that awareness that you were talking about earlier where I could see myself and not just see it but also feel how this anger that I had been suppressing and allowed to build up was really toxic and not something that I really wanted to be in anymore. I didn't want to be holding on to it. I didn't want to continue living the next however many years I'm alive with this same level of emotion and not reconciling it so I could work with it in a healthy manner. Thus, I went to Peru and I did a one month .

Leaving for Peru

Scott: Yeah, and that's where a lot of clarity came through. I'd say I was just scratching surface of my own personal work. Like I said, that thought of, "This medicine is not done with me," and went back. It took about eight months of integration for that first workshop or retreat that I went to and in those eight months, got a lot more insight into what actually happened or what was coming up for me in the ceremonies. If anything, it reinforced this desire to want to explore more, go a little bit deeper.

Scott: I told my business partner I'm taking some time off, I'm stepping away from the business, put all of my stuff into storage. My brother and his family were nice enough to let me crash on their couch for two months before I left for Peru. It was for about two and a half years nonstop. I went home for maybe a few weeks and then I went back for another two plus years.

Scott: I wouldn't necessarily advise it. I think we tell people, "Take some time before making major life decisions," but in my case it fortunately worked out. It's been a calling, I have no idea where this path is leading me and I'm strangely okay with that. I find it extremely rewarding to watch individuals come through and do this work. For me, that is such a cool gift to see, you along with the other participants in this retreat having the courage to really dive deep into some very personal aspects of their lives and to start looking at it and to also clear it.

Holding yourself accountable

Scott: What I love about this work just coming from my own experience is the degree in which I have had to hold myself accountable. Stepping away from taking on the archetype of being the victim. "Why is this shit happening to me," or, "How come I'm not getting this but these other people are and they're less deserving," and actually unabashedly looking at how I've chosen, maybe on an unconscious level, quite often I would say on an unconscious level, to approach life and how I choose to engage with my environment and the people that are in it. In doing so, ultimately I can give that, for lack of a better word, power away to an external source or I can actually step into claiming fundamentally I am responsible for how I choose to live my life.

Scott: It's a big pill to swallow because in doing so, this work, as I've seen my progression in it and I'm still at the surface, I feel is I start to see behavioral patterns or thought patterns that I've held on to. They definitely have a place. They probably served me at a point in time but they're no longer in resonance or they no longer are really serving me at this juncture where I'm at now.

Scott: To take that step into being authentic and genuine and not hiding behind the excuses or some beliefs or protection, behaviors that are protecting myself from maybe doing something or taking myself out of a very comfortable space because there is fear. Around, "If I do this, oh my God, this could happen in the future," and playing more in what may or may not happen rather than, okay, acknowledging that, hey, this is scary, moving to the jungle or changing jobs.

Changing jobs

Mike: Same about you changing jobs. You changing jobs is different than most people changing jobs.

Scott: It's still fundamentally, it's very easy. I think there's this attachment that is very common in humans which is finding stability or wanting to have a sense of stability in a world, in a universe that can seem very chaotic and unstable.

Scott: To step outside of that and take a risk, and this is being conscious of it, not just blindly deciding to do something crazy out of the blue but recognizing, "This is scary. I'm going to change where I'm living," or I'm going to change my occupation or my career. It's scary and to acknowledge that is a really important in, I'd say, owning this aspect of coming into one's own power. Having a sense of agency over your life rather than allowing the world or the environment to feel like it's influencing how your life is going.

Mike: Was there a point where there was a big shift in that?

Scott: There have been many. The biggest one, probably one of the first real challenging ceremonies where I really got a good, hard look at some aspects of myself that Jung would call shadow, was this one ceremony where I went into it, I was really, really triggered. This person had said something to me that was also a volunteer at the center I worked at in Peru.

Scott: Super angry and just, yeah, what I mentioned earlier, I'd been working with my own anger. At this point, I was like, "You know what, I don't care," and just drank my dose of medicine. The lanterns went out of the space and I'm just stewing in a really gnarly, angry energy.

What Goes in The Ceremony

Photographer: Lucas Campoi | Source: Unsplash

Scott: It was interesting. I'm looking at the person across the maloca, the space that we hold ceremony in. I could only see the silhouette of this individual. I'm just concentrating, looking at this person and, you know, "How dare you?" all of those funny, angry thoughts that go through the head. In a second, I saw this silhouette transform into a reflection of me. It was all of the anger that I was actually putting onto this person. That was the target but in reality it was just my own anger because I didn't have a sense or an awareness of what it was really touching on for me and why it just happened that she was representing it.

Scott: It was this beautiful space to start looking at it. I was like, "Okay, that's interesting." I thought that was my ceremony. Like, "Okay, I get the lesson. Ha ha ha. Nice." Ceremony ends and I'm getting ready to leave the space and that's when the purge came. It was this purge that I have only experienced two other times with my work with ayahuasca since. It was a combination of vomiting, I'd say body vibrations, just shaking a lot of intense energy out. It felt like an exorcism, I've never seen an exorcism but what I would attribute to a movie like just it. All of this suppressed anger that I had been holding onto was taken out.

The first purge

Scott: That first purge lasted for maybe 20 minutes nonstop. The only thing that was keeping me tethered That ended, I felt like, "Okay, whew, that was intense," and thought I was done with it. I had another purge probably 20 minutes later, same thing. At this point, just emotionally, physically, I am drained. I'm like, "Okay, I think we're done for the night."

Scott: I go to the bathroom, I come out of the bathroom and my legs just totally collapse and I'm on the dirt ground, just shivering, shaking as this final purge is happening. I remember, whether it's true or not I don't think really matters but I heard this voice saying, "You've come this far, do you want to stop?" Or, "Do you want to see this through to completion?" Without doubt it was like, "I'm not going to go through this again. Let's do this and continue."

Mike: Yeah, because if you don't handle it now you're going to have to handle it later.

Scott: Exactly.

Mike: Oh man

Scott: I was like, "I do not want to experience this again."

Mike: "I'm already halfway there."

Scott: Exactly. It felt like more than halfway but it was a ride and a half. I was raw. I was so emotionally raw and physically drained for, I'd say, the next two days it took just to start putting the pieces together again.

Mike: Wow.

Scott: It was a fundamental shift. I'd say how I worked with that anger as well as a myriad of other aspects of just personal work that we're connected into that want emotion.

The Fear Around Ayahuasca

Mike: It took you two days to put the pieces back together. I think that's one of the things that people have a lot of fear around in regard to plant medicine work. That is, "I'm afraid I'm going to lose my mind." I posted some stuff on Instagram this week of, "If you have any questions about ayahuasca," I actually did a couple lives throughout the week so I could just tell people what I'm up to and share what I know. What do you tell the person who goes, "I'm afraid I'm going to lose my mind," because it sounds like you lost your fucking mind for a couple days.

Scott: I wouldn't say, I definitely was present or aware. I had the awareness of where I was and what had happened. It was just feeling very, very delicate emotionally and physically not having really that much energy. From a mental standpoint, it's not uncommon for people to have that concern, I feel, going into the medicine space. What I would contend or offer to people is is it really the mind that you're afraid of losing or are you afraid of the control that the mind has in shaping the reality that a person is living in?

Scott: To take it back a few steps, it's not uncommon that a lot of people who I've seen work with this medicine for the first time, it is about relinquishing control. I believe Dennis McKenna had a beautiful interview where he stated, "You want to have an experience? Work with this medicine and you'll recognize that we're not in control of shit," and yet there's so much that is reinforced in society in general, globally.

Letting go and seeing what's possible

Scott: The beauty in it is, the shift for me was to start looking at it as, "This is a practice of being being present, being conscious. I remember reading before my first retreat or workshop with ayahuasca Eckhart Tolle's The Power of Now and read it and I was like, "Oh, okay, it makes sense on an intellectual level, how do I get there? This is all nice and wonderful that you're saying and I understand but can you give me a roadmap?"

Scott: I think that's the mental block. It's until, and this is where the medicine can play a very beautiful component, is it can strip a person down and dissolve a lot of those mental structures. That's where I think and feel that the fear comes in because if I no longer have my mind and I lose my mind, I'm going to be a crazy person or whatever thought process they may have.

Scott: Again, to momentarily let that go and to actually see what's there, it's not nearly as scary as people might think. They actually experience maybe a sense of being at peace or of stillness. It's a brief glimpse as to what can be possible and it's maybe not the state that everyone needs to be in consistently but to put into practice, whether that's through yoga or meditation or playing music or drawing, anything that will help a person connect to themselves and put them more in tune with what they're feeling along with is their mind present with that in the moment? That is the stillness that I think a lot of people are looking for. It's not just the action of doing it but putting themselves wholly into it if that makes any sense.

From Being an Attendee to Helping Facilitate Ceremonies

Mike: This turned into four and a half years in Peru. Now you went from basically going to a workshop where you were an attendee, how did you transition into helping to facilitate these ceremonies?

Scott: When I went back to Peru, I was on kind of a work exchange so it was a chance to continue my own work first and foremost and dig a little bit deeper into, looking at things on a very personal level. Whether that was relationships, my understanding of certain emotions and how I relate to them. How I have an aversion to certain emotions and an attachment to other emotions. Looking at elements of what family means for me. How I've been so accustomed to attributing it to have certain requirements and recognizing that that's very limiting by just almost ticking off boxes. Same with personal relationships.

Scott: That was about a three month period of time where I was considered a volunteer work exchange volunteer. I asked to stay on and they were, I guess, happy enough with my time there and the work that personally I had done as well as helping out in the center that they asked me to stay on for another four months. That's where I felt like they really were looking at me as potentially starting to train as a facilitator. I did a lot of time sitting on the door, which was assisting people to and from the bathroom, kind of getting more experience drinking a working dose which is a smaller homeopathic dose to connect into this space, and working. That shifts the intention of connecting to the medicine.

The lessons in the ceremony

Mike: I've always just been a participant. What would those lessons be like?

Scott: What service means. To be in service to others and ultimately in that I'm in service to myself. Lessons along the lines of how I choose to engage people if someone is, let's say, being disruptive or being noisy, can I approach them in a way that I can connect to them without having my own judgments come in? Being really mindful of my thoughts in that space.

Scott: What I think can be a bit unfamiliar and seem like a foreign language to people who start working with ayahuasca for the first time is the language that can be used or is used regarding energy work. On the surface it's like, "Oh, okay, we're working on you energetically," or the healers, the curanderos, are working on people energetically, bringing them into alignment and clearing out heavier energies.

Scott: When I started to actually work in that space, getting a deeper understanding that they're doing it in a very skillful way but recognizing that I can have an impact on a person's experience by if I'm triggered or if I'm angry or I'm frustrated, if there's fear present, that can spread in that space. Really understanding or getting a better understanding of, "Can I work in this space being centered and grounded and yet still being open and compassionate for whatever process a person is going through and ultimately not losing my shit?"

Scott: It accelerated, I'd say, my understanding of how this medicine can work in a really beautiful way but definitely challenging. Every ceremony was, you know, class was in session and you're learning something about yourself as well as how to relate to other people in that space.

Scott's Latest Work

Mike: What would you say you're working on now?

Scott: Personally?

Mike: Yeah, personally and professionally. Being in this, because you've been in this for coming on five years now, what's that like?

Scott: It's weird. I kind of miss, on some level I have this fondness and their memories and I recognize that they are memories because the ceremonies that were really challenging, that really kicked my butt, there's a part of me that misses that intensity. Because it was visceral. It felt like I was really digging into the dirt and the sludge and like, "Okay, this is the meaty content of what this work is." I haven't had that level of ceremony in a while and it's not that I feel like my work is over.

Scott: I know that they're there waiting for me at some point in the future but more than anything, it's this constant fine tuning, which is really, really fascinating to see where, get reflections back and where I'm at and where I'm at with my own personal work and development. Where I get some insight or perspective on, hey, let's take a look at this one or these few instances where I wasn't really coming from a place of integrity or I wasn't aligned to my authenticity.

The Soltara Experience

Mike: Super solid. I feel really good about recommending Soltara to anybody, knowing that they'll be fully taken care of. Because not only did we experience that this week but I had some friends come down back in November and they had the same experience.

Mike: I think a lot of people, they think about plant medicine and they think about blasting off into space. There's this idea of going out there, but how do you bring that back to your daily life? When I think about these types of things and integration, it's how high can you go and how low can you go, in a way.

Scott: Yeah. Ultimately it's such a personal experience. No one ayahuasca experience is going to be replicated or identical from one person to the next. There's the beauty of it being very personal in that way. It's not uncommon, I've come across enough guests who, they come in and they want to have these epiphanies and they may get them, but there may be a tendency to want to hang out in this higher vibrational plane of awareness, which understandable that there may be a desire there. The reality is we live in a physical space.

Scott: To take the insights or the teachings, the downloads that a person can receive in a ceremony and actually incorporate them or integrate them into their daily life, that is, for me and I'd say Soltara as well as a lot of the people that I respect in this field and this work, that that's really the purpose of this medicine. To gain glimpses and insights that you can bring into your daily life that will allow you to live a more authentic, more conscious way of being.

Traditions built around ayahuasca

Scott: It is a thing. More often than not, this work, we call it work because there is an effort that a person has to put themselves into. In order to see the beautiful, airy things, a lot of, maybe decades of repressed or suppressed emotions, experiences, need to be cleaned and let go of in order to create the space for those things to come in. Drinking the medicine in and of itself isn't going to automatically launch a person into that space. In some cases it may but again, until someone is willing, I'd say, to take a hard look at themselves, maybe the very thing that they're chasing after is not going to be tapped into.

Scott: There's this process that takes place in sitting specifically, I'd say, with this tradition. Ayahuasca is used throughout the Amazonian jungle and there are a lot of other indigenous tribes.

Mike: This is what blows me away, is it's not just one or two tribes. You got Peru, Ecuador, Brazil, Columbia, I don't even know where else they're doing it. That's a lot of fucking space. It's happening all over.

Scott: Exactly. Each of those indigenous tribes that have a tradition built around working with this medicine have their own approaches to it. Just to clarify, what I'm addressing is really how the Shipibo are, from my experience, working with it in that it is a plant medicine that is really there to help people find alignment and to clean off energetically what they may refer to as susto, a fright, a shock to the system, energetically. That's a trauma of some sort. That could be anything from, potentially if people choose to believe in this, a past life experience that's been passed on generationally

Never tripping on ayahuasca

Mike: I heard some people recently talking about tripping. "Oh yeah man, I'm going to trip tonight on ayahuasca." I'm like, "I don't think you've done ayahuasca yet." I haven't tripped on ayahuasca ever.

Scott: This is funny. I was thinking about this actually at one point during the group share that we had today. I had this flash of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back where Luke Skywalker's talking to Yoda and he's like, "I'm not afraid to go into this cave." Yoda just looks at him and says, "Oh, you will be." That's the perfect metaphor for the way that the Shipibo work with this system. It's like you are going to, it's not going to be uncommon for someone to experience something that is very frightening and it's often that self reflection back into things that we would choose to not either acknowledge or see about ourselves. It struck me as something very funny.

Mike: There are a lot of first time people this week.

Scott: Yeah, and testament to this group, you all came through it like champions, just really, really impressed with where people are at today and what's surfaced for them.

Mike: It was so cool. It was so cool to be a part of the conversations on the bus ride here and there will be a bus ride tomorrow, which will be cool, to have the closing conversations. It has been cool to watch people's transformation over the week. I know I've experienced it myself. I'm much more relaxed, I'm much more certain about some things in my own life and I'm ready to step into the unknown in a lot of ways.

The Changes After Soltara

Scott: I'm curious, have you seen, have you been able to see it in people's eyes as the weeks progress?

Mike: Yeah. It's cool. People's posture changes, their breathing changes, face relaxes. It's really cool to be around this type of work and watch the whole body morph in a very short period of time.

Scott: I can see it in your eyes too. I mean you're just really bright and clear.

Mike: I feel extremely clear, extremely, extremely clear. Very relaxed. I've been a little tense lately so this has been …

Scott: Having four ayahuasca ceremonies, yeah.

Mike: That'll do it. Is there anything you want to leave the audience with before we go?

Scott: Just if you're interested or wanting to explore working with ayahuasca as a medicine for your own personal growth or healing, definitely do your research. There are a lot of really solid medicine centers out there and there's an equal number of questionable centers as well as practitioners. Taking the time to research where you're going, who the healers are, how much experience they have, is a really big part of going into a space that you can trust.

Scott: We mention this with the groups that come here. Trust is a really big thing in taking this work deeper because unless a person doesn't feel safe to trust into the space to go into those deeper layers of self work or they don't trust the healers or they don't trust that should anything happen that there's protocols in place to be taken care of, it makes it more challenging. It can actually not provide you with the opportunity to really take this experience and get the most out of it.

Scott: I'm definitely biased but Soltara is a beautiful place to come.

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